About 60 county residents attended a presentation on rural property protection held at the Mountain View County administration office on Aug. 14.
The event featured presentations from Didsbury RCMP Staff Sgt. Chad Fournier, Jillian Williamson, a criminal defence lawyer, and Duncan Taylor, an insurance litigator.
The evening's MC, county reeve Bruce Beattie, said the event went well.
"We had a really good turnout," said Beattie. "We had over 60 people who attended from across the county. There was a good cross-section from right across the county."
Beattie said there were lots of good questions from the audience and that unfortunately, people weren't always happy with the answers.
"With the legal system we have, there are not a lot of good answers," he said. "It's hard to answer some of these questions around property rights and ability to defend property and person, which were one of the areas of discussion."
Fournier and Williamson spoke first and talked about the law and how it applies to defence of person and defence of property.
Fournier gave an example of a farmer who hears something in his shed at 3 a.m. and goes to investigate with a shotgun.
In regards to whether a person could be charged when defending themselves or someone else, Williamson talked about the Criminal Code of Canada and specifically sections 34 and 35.
"Some people think if it's self defence I'm not actually going to be charged with a crime or an assault allegation," said Williamson. "That is, in fact, probably not true. If you apply force to someone else's body without consent you have committed the crime of assault in almost any circumstance."
Fournier said there are several other factors that authorities consider such as size, age, and gender of each party.
Fournier said in most cases a complaint will come to the police and they will gather evidence, conduct interviews and either consult with the Crown attorneys or just lay a charge themselves.
"I think it's reasonable to say that everyone is on the same page -- that if you are in your house with your family and someone is trying to break into your house, you hear the window smash and you yell at them to get the heck out," said Fournier. "If they continue to come in your house knowing you're there, I think it's game on. I would do whatever I had to do to protect myself and my family."
Fournier said most criminals don't want a home's residents around when breaking in.
"They'll come in the daytime, knock on the door," he said. "No one's home. OK, I'm going to break in and steal what I can steal. That is probably 99 per cent of the thefts and break-ins. They don't want confrontation. They just want to steal what they can and get out."
Fournier then talked about defence of property, which he said was what most of the presentation's attendees were there for. He talked about a scenario where the homeowner hears a noise at 4 a.m. and gets up and sees someone break into their shop or shed.
"What is your rights to protect your property?" he querried.
Williamson said that lethal force is not acceptable in that situation.
"If you're worried about someone trying to steal a quad or equipment - I realize that this is your livelihood and you need it for work and income - but lethal force isn't going to be reasonable," she said.
"What would a reasonable person do in that situation is what they look at," said Fournier. "To prevent a person from entering their property or stealing or damaging their property, to physically remove someone from the property, ie. grabbing or knocking down an intruder is likely a reasonable action. Shooting an intruder in your barn or outside on your property is not reasonable. The use of a firearm to protect property will likely not be reasonable."
An audience member asked what if the intruder was armed.
"What if they are? So what?" answered Fournier. "You're in your house with your family. They're out in the shop across the yard. Are you going to engage in a firefight with them? Are you going to initiate that? That's something everyone has to think about. If you confront these guys, what if you lose?"
Fournier reiterated that there is a big difference between how a person is able to protect themselves versus their property.
"Everyone here has worked hard for what we have," he said. "To have someone come in and take it is a violation. It sure is, but at the end of the day it's just a piece of property. It's just a quad, it's just a truck, it's just tools. It's extremely frustrating for everyone."
Fournier used a couple in the audience in an example where the husband goes out with a rifle and dies in a confrontation with the thieves in the shed.
"What do you think his wife would do to get him back?" he said. "Now she's at home thinking it was just a quad or just a truck. I'd do anything to have him back instead of confronting those guys. What's it worth? You have to think in those terms."
Taylor talked about how insurance is affected by defending oneself or their property.
"I'll talk about the big question: occupier's liability," he said. "You can be sued by someone who trespasses onto your property."
Taylor talked about how putting certain dangerous, concealed items on your property could leave you liable for a lawsuit.
"What I'm trying to do is (give you) ways to make it less likely that someone who trespasses onto your property is likely to successfully sue you," he said. "I want to tell you something that your insurance adjuster will ask so you can help them out. It'll make it less likely for that person to recover under your property owner's insurance policy."
Some of the questions from audience members at the event included:
- What if someone comes into my house with a weapon? Can I shoot them in the arm?
- If someone is trespassing why is it not automatically thrown out of court because they're not supposed to be there in the first place?
- Are you liable for injuries or damage caused if your cows get out?
- What if my dog bites a trespasser? Will he be put down?
